Manchester City Forums

How do you know he doesn't?

ha! well played.

Colleague? The don't even play in the same country. I think the grief culture in football's got a bit out of control, where everyone tries to outdo themselves. It's a tragidy for the person's family, friends and people who knew him, not entire nations. It doesn't happen in any other profession. Somewhere in the world someone dies through lack of clean water every 3 seconds or something, and nobody bats an eyelid. I think minute silences have lost their significance a bit too due to the frequency of them these days.

I also don't think the game should've been called off. 40,000 people given up their Saturday to get to a football ground in North London (and White Hart Lane is more difficult to get to than most), 3,000 Bolton fans having travelled 4 hours to London turning round and do the same journey back. For a couple of hundred school kids it will have been their first ever game. He's in the best hands, I don't think he'd want the game to be abandoned. I wouldn't anyway. Fair enough if the players were too grief stricken to carry on, but they're professionals, I'm sure they could've kicked a ball around for another half. Something similar happened when I worked at Sainsburys, some lad who worked on the back door collapsed with heart failure and we weren't all sent home and the store shut.

Did people at the Tesco's opposite wear t-shirts with his name on it?

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KYPU

No but Marché U shut down in support of their colleague.

latest is that Fabrice Muamba is critical but heart in Stable condition which i'm hoping is good news.

Also Owen Coyle is to meet with the FA about pulling out of the FA cup.

It's a different industry. You don't pay to go to Sainsbury's to be entertained - you go there to buy goods; the product you are paying for is unaltered by the guy collapsing. Had that match continued, it'd be fairly understandable if none of the players were in the right frame of mind. How many of the people in your Sainsbury's analogy knew the guy personally and were friends with him - I can't imagine anyone that was would have been sanctioned had they decided they were unable to work for the rest of the day. Any result of the game would have had the incident hanging over it and I'm pretty sure a vast majority of the audience wouldn't have been exceptionally 'entertained' as a guy pretty much spontaneously dying on the pitch is liable to divert your attention away from the game. A better analogy would be to question if an actor died on stage, would you seriously expect a theatre production to continue?

If an actor collapsed on stage and was taken to hospital I'd expect his understudy to go on, yes - that's what he's there for.

The show must go on dear boy!

i completely disagree with you on every level here.

if an actor actually died on stage, or was still being resuscitated on his way out of the theatre, i think most of the cast would be too affected by it to deliver a decent performance and would rather a ticket to the show next week.

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"It felt like a really pointless version of ketamine: no psychedelic effects, no pleasant slide into rubbery nonsense, just a sudden drop off the cliff of wrongness."
"i'm gonna wreck you so bad we're going to have to change church"

As I said, if an actor collapsed on stage and was taken to hospital I'd expect his understudy to go on, yes.

I'm not saying this to rattle a few cages, I genuinely think a lot of the out pouring of grief is self serving in a lot of cases. People like the feeling of going OTT with anguish even though they don't know the person from Adam, and want to be seen to be more devasted than the next person. It's expected of people these days and each time it happens it gets cranked up a notch.

Or I might just be a cynical bastard and be completely wrong about the whole thing.

Only those scouce fans holding up the get well banner and pointing to it yesterday will know for sure if they did it out of genuine anguish, or because they wanted to get on TV looking all sensitive.

not thinking you're saying it to get a rise, but personally, after watching paramedics attempt to resuscitate someone on stage for 10 minutes, then them wheel him off still doing chest compressions and not have a clue whether or not i'd just watched someone die... i'm not sure i'd enjoy the show with the understudy on when it did resume, nor do i think the remaining actors would do it justice.

concur about the other fans/teams and that, a bit at least, but something that seems to be being mentioned is that it makes a refreshing change for a bit of humanity to be shown by fans after the recent chants about gary speed and the dead chairman.

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"It felt like a really pointless version of ketamine: no psychedelic effects, no pleasant slide into rubbery nonsense, just a sudden drop off the cliff of wrongness."
"i'm gonna wreck you so bad we're going to have to change church"

Fabrice Muamba remains critically ill but stable after cardiac arrest• Bolton midfielder remains in intensive care
• Bolton's manager Owen Coyle offers thanks for support


Share 31 reddit this Press Association
guardian.co.uk, Monday 19 March 2012 10.28 GMT Article history
Fabrice Muamba remains critically ill but stable after his shock collapse on the pitch at Tottenham on Saturday. Photograph: Matt Dunham/AP
Fabrice Muamba remained critically ill on Monday morning as he continued to fight for his life after suffering a cardiac arrest during Bolton's FA Cup sixth-round tie at Tottenham on Saturday night.

Medical staff took two hours to get Muamba breathing again and he is now being closely monitored in the heart attack centre at the London chest hospital.

A joint statement from Bolton, Barts and the NHS Trust at 9.30am on Monday morning read: "Fabrice Muamba's heart condition is stable, but he remains critically ill in intensive care at the London chest hospital. The family is grateful to the media for continuing to respect their privacy at this time."

Bolton's manager, Owen Coyle, and the club's chairman, Phil Gartside, visited the hospital this morning. Coyle, who accompanied Muamba to hospital, offered his personal thanks for the messages of support that continue to be received, both at the hospital and the Reebok Stadium.

"From our end, and on behalf of the family, we want to say a big thanks to everyone," said Coyle. "We have been inundated by good messages, everyone praying for Fabrice which is very important. It has been a real source of strength for the family. We know how difficult a time it is for everyone. I can't really quantify it [the support]. It has been incredible, not just from the football world, from everyone.

"It is great to be talented at football but it's more important to be a genuinely nice man and everyone recognises Fabrice is that. That has pulled everyone together. We certainly hope he comes through this. If he pulls through it would be marvellous, it really would."

Gartside added his own tribute: "I know Fabrice's family have been overwhelmed by the huge outpouring of kindness, from people visiting the hospital to leave cards to those sending messages and emails.

"The staff at the London chest hospital have been nothing short of exceptional and I would like to thank them all at this ongoing critical time. I ask for everybody to keep Fabrice in their prayers and thoughts."

The Premier League agreed to Bolton's request for Tuesday's planned match with Aston Villa at Villa Park to be postponed. No new date has been confirmed and it is still not clear when Saturday night's game will be played.

Bolton's next game is due to be in the Premier League, against local rivals and fellow relegation candidates Blackburn, at home on Saturday, although no decision will be made until much later in the week about whether that match can proceed. Blackburn have said they are happy to postpone the game, however the Bolton captain, Kevin Davies, believes it is too soon to discuss fixtures following a team meeting on Monday morning at the club's Euxton training complex.

"Any of those questions are irrelevant at the minute," said Davies. "I have been speaking to the manager and I have travelled back with the chairman. He went back down to support Fabrice and his family.

"It was optional to come into training today and decisions will have to be made but my immediate thoughts are with Fabrice and his family. The club will take a stance on it in the next couple of days. But at the minute we want to just try and help Fabrice."

Davies went to hospital with Muamba on Saturday night and marvelled at the work of the medical staff, who he is convinced saved Muamba's life.

"The amount of people who were turning up, running around trying to get Fabrice sorted out was amazing," he said. "There is no doubt in my mind if it wasn't down to all those people, we wouldn't even be in this situation. We are all thankful to them that they have given Fabrice a bit of hope."

Davies has also been touched by the overwhelming support for Muamba from across the footballing world. Fans of both sides applauded the 23-year-old off the pitch on Saturday and supporters at other matches since have offered their own backing with a minute's applause. Numerous scarves and other tributes from competing clubs have been left at the Reebok Stadium.

"It is the first time in my nearly 19 years in the game that I have seen a stadium unite," he said. "It was touching but I was laying in bed thinking how sad it was as well. As professionals, we put a lot of hours in. We work hard and make a lot of sacrifices. But it seems that the only way you are going to get a ripple of applause away from your own ground is to get carried off on a stretcher.

"That is a sad state of affairs. Fans are quick to get off their seats if there is a mis-timed tackle. Maybe people have to ask why Fabrice Muamba runs 80 yards to put a last-ditch tackle in. It is not because he has anything against your team. It is because he is working hard for his own. If there is anything positive to come out of this, when you see supporters from all over, it would be nice if the fans could unite."

After scoring in Chelsea's FA Cup win over Leicester at Stamford Bridge yesterday, Muamba's former Bolton team-mate Gary Cahill revealed a T-shirt with the message "Pray 4 Muamba" printed on it.

Supporters at Wolves' home game with Manchester United combined in a minute's applause before kick-off.

The referee Howard Webb, whose prompt actions on Saturday, in addition to those of medical staff have received such praise, withdrew from fourth official duties at Wolves on the advice of a psychologist who works with the Professional Game Match Officials Limited.

Muamba began his career at Arsenal, joining them as a schoolboy 10 years ago. Their manager, Arsène Wenger, said: "This is, of course, a massive shock to us all and we just hope that Fabrice will pull through safely.

"You pray that the damage will be repaired and that Fabrice will come out healthy and we will see his smile again. That is all you wish for.

"As a man, Fabrice has a positive attitude towards life, he is full of determination and has a great desire. Everyone at Arsenal has huge respect for Fabrice.

"Even after he left us, he often passed by to say hello and speak about how it was going for him. We feel very deeply attached to him. He is what you would call a committed player. His hunger and determination was so big. When he was younger, he had massive players in front of him at Arsenal, but I felt he had reached the level to play in the Premier League, so we let him go and he has proved his quality.

"A football player always remains attached to where he was educated. Fabrice had his friends from childhood here and they remain your friends forever. We are all thinking of Fabrice, his family and everyone close to him."

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"It felt like a really pointless version of ketamine: no psychedelic effects, no pleasant slide into rubbery nonsense, just a sudden drop off the cliff of wrongness."
"i'm gonna wreck you so bad we're going to have to change church"

Putting aside the obvious idiocy in that statement, I could just make it a bit simpler for you - maybe one of the Real players, Diarra, wanted to show a little bit of support for a former Arsenal team-mate. Is that really such a bad thing?

The stuff about carrying on with the game gives you the uninformed air of a Bassman. You must be so proud.

It's not a bad thing no, if Diarra and him were close. The Abidal message was a nice touch given the anomosity between the two clubs in recent years.

It's not really uninformed if it's an opinion I have. Unless there's some information I'm not aware of.

If it's an opinion based on no personal experience of the issues in question then it's uninformed I'm afraid.

A more informed opinion would be that of someone like Kevin Keegan:

‘Although every case is different, there were horrible similarities with what happened to Marc,’ he said.
‘There was no way the game could continue here - you could see, from the distress of players on both sides, that you can’t play football after something so traumatic.’

See I agree with SEC that grief and emotion are way overcooked in football. Has been that way for decades.

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KYPU

Oh aye, so do I, I just disagree about everything else he says.

Well maybe that's it then. Having not experienced it I feel that the players could've realised he was in the best hands, hoped for the best, and seen out the game for the tens of thousands of people who had travelled so far and spent so much to be there. I'm not sure that makes me Bassman. Every opinion offered on here on match day is uniniformed unless we have any Premiership footballers in our midst.

That's just about the most Bassman-esque response you could have made. Congratulations.