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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:25 am 
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Manchester City may be spending big but their horizons are limited by status

Man City's spree is aimed at cracking the top four not winning anything outright. Only then can they land world-class players

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How many people thought, on hearing that Manchester City had won the foreign ownership lottery this time last year, that they would spend the following summer doing their best to make Chelsea £50m richer? Or that having spent a year observing the team player that is Robinho at close quarters, they would be rushing out to spend more money on Carlos Tevez and Emmanuel Adebayor?

If paying over the odds for John Terry, plus saving Chelsea several years of his not inconsiderable salary, is City's idea of how to break up the top four's cosy cartel then a lot of hopeful spectators are going to be disappointed. As they might be by Tevez. If the Argentinian's goals really carry City to the title then fine, City will not begrudge paying every penny of Kia Joorabchian's £25m valuation and Manchester United will be left with egg on their face.

When you have unlimited spending power you can take wild gambles like that and perhaps not even worry too much if they fail to come off, yet one cannot help wondering whether City listened too much to the United fans, who ended last season imploring Sir Alex Ferguson to "sign him up", and did not spend long enough pondering why the most successful manager in the business took a good long look at Tevez over the course of two years and ended up unconvinced.

At least if City scoop up Adebayor, they cannot be accused of taking the views of the Arsenal fans into account. Paying around £25m for a player whose performances and attitude were suspect last season is giving another helping hand to a top-four club rather than giving them something to think about. Surely City should have held out for Samuel Eto'o, no matter how complicated, or Luis Fabiano, no matter how expensive.

Signing top players is difficult, no one suggested it was going to be otherwise, though there seems little point in being the richest club in the world if you are going to take no for an answer and turn instead to players who are not quite as outstanding. The point about Eto'o is that he is good and he is available. He wants a move from Barcelona, and while he may not want to move to Manchester, that is where money, persuasion and salesmanship come in.

Eto'o might have been a City player by now had he been wooed half as assiduously as Kaka was last Christmas, when City appeared willing to move heaven and earth for a player who all too plainly had no intention of playing in England and would have been perfectly happy to stay at Milan for the rest of his career.

Perhaps City were wise to curtail their chase of Eto'o once they worked out that he was playing off a range of options with a move to Manchester fairly low on his priority list, yet to the naked eye Adebayor does not appear to have any options and he doesn't really want to play for City either. Just because a player wishes to double his wages does not necessarily mean he will be an asset to a club, for reasons discussed here last week. Unless he is excited by the move, keen to prove his worth and improve himself as a player, all sorts of things can go wrong.

Chelsea are not standing in Terry's way. They have said they want to keep him, but have not said, possibly to Terry's disappointment, that they will never sell him at any price or promised to match any stupid wage offers he receives from clubs with stupid money to throw around. Terry is 29 this year, not as sprightly as he once was, and Chelsea, models of rationality and financial prudence when set against City, know they are not going to be snowed under by gargantuan offers for their captain.

A number of people got in touch last week to make the point that City are not doing anything wrong and are perfectly entitled to try to sign any player they wish, that they should not sit back and let the top four have everything their own way, and that it is about time someone new shook up the old order a little bit. It is hard to disagree with any of these sentiments, yet football is never quite that simple.

Certainly City can try for any player they wish, though given their relatively lowly status they should not be too surprised if their targets prefer more established destinations. Then they can try throwing money at the problem, but they will find Kaka and Cristiano Ronaldo still going to the Bernabéu while City themselves attract Gareth Barry and Tevez. Given that Barcelona are European champions and Real Madrid are entering a new galácticos era, it hardly seems to matter at the moment what City do with all their money, especially the way they have been spending it. Terry or no Terry.

The club's Arab owners bought in at a time when, rightly or wrongly, the Premier League was perceived to be the centre of the footballing world, the place where all the players and all the money resided. The big league. Now that is no longer the case. Within a couple of months at the end of last season, the two Spanish giants deprived the English champions of their European title and their most iconic player. Ferguson has just admitted he turned to Michael Owen on a free when he discovered he could not compete with Real Madrid for Karim Benzema. This is at Manchester United, who have won the last three English titles, not Manchester City, who are still waiting to place their first order for Brasso in 30 years.

That could change this season. City do appear to be building a team capable of achieving something, though apart from the reliably irascible Rafael Benítez, none of the top-four managers seem unduly concerned by project Eastlands. If City want to double Tevez's wages, or Terry's or Adebayor's, then it's their lookout. No one else suffers. Far from terrorising the top four, City's fabulous wealth has so far merely provided a safety net for their cast-offs and senior servants. Twice the wages and about half the pressure. Given that Liverpool are skint and United servicing a massive debt, what is keeping City from tabling a massive offer for Fernando Torres or Wayne Rooney? Do they not fancy upsetting the neighbours, or are they waiting until the pair are almost 30?

A personal theory, for what it is worth, is that City know they have to be in the Champions League before they can begin throwing their money at truly elite players. And their current spending spree is because they realise they really ought to accomplish that this season, when they have no other distractions. Playing in the Europa League the season after would not only be a huge disappointment, it would materially affect Champions League qualification. Hence the current bulking up. Can City win the league this season? The bookies are offering 16-1, so probably not. Can they crack the top four? Yes they can. In fact they must. They will never have a better chance.


Lots of fucking stupid bits in there, can't be bothered highlighting them all. Help yourself.

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Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


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The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:28 am 
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Micahrichardsatemybaby wrote:
Manchester City may be spending big but their horizons are limited by status

Man City's spree is aimed at cracking the top four not winning anything outright. Only then can they land world-class players



Lots of fucking stupid bits in there, can't be bothered highlighting them all. Help yourself.


Nope. I had a go but just couldn't make it past a couple of paragraphs. Where's it from?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:31 am 
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http://www.mancityforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=249051&postcount=2372


:whistle:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:35 am 
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Arlborn wrote:


Good whistlage.

Grauniad. /takinganythingseriously

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:41 am 
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Benny wrote:
Good whistlage.

Grauniad. /takinganythingseriously


Being right wing ftw

[color="White"]Their treatment of us is fucking disgraceful tbf[/color]

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Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


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The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:43 am 
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Micahrichardsatemybaby wrote:
Being right wing ftw

[color="White"]Their treatment of us is fucking disgraceful tbf[/color]


I don't get it, they should love us, we were the first club to be recognised as 'gay friendly' by Stonewall.

What does 'gay friendly' even mean in this context? This forum was around in August 2006, right?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:43 am 
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The Guardian sucks cocks.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:44 am 
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Micahrichardsatemybaby wrote:
Being right wing ftw

[color="White"]Their treatment of us is fucking disgraceful tbf[/color]


Is it more than paranoia? I just expect it now, so it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but it definitely seems more than that.

Prolly 'cos we have all the money. They won't like that, they probably think we should redistribute it (though that doesn't explain the love of united I perceive. That could be the red colour though).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:45 am 
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Bastard wrote:
The Guardian sucks cocks.


:rolleyes:

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Emigre wrote:
Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


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The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:47 am 
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Former Middlesbrough goalkeeper Ross Turnbull revealed that he left the club after a lack of guarantees over first-team football in the Championship.



Is he retarded?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:51 am 
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Benny wrote:
Is it more than paranoia? I just expect it now, so it could be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but it definitely seems more than that.

Prolly 'cos we have all the money. They won't like that, they probably think we should redistribute it (though that doesn't explain the love of united I perceive. That could be the red colour though).


No it's genuinely not. Having Danny Taylor and his sister as Manchester correspondants goes some way to explaining it tbf.

I can't work it out beyond that..? Is everyone so attached to the old heirarchy of football? Do they not want things more interesting? My point of view comes with bias obviously, but what's so wrong with breaking the hegemony? Even if we make it a "big 5", surely that's more interesting and competitive than a top 4?
And the papers cling to us "doing it wrong", as if there was any other way to do it, which smacks of ignorance to me. It's intelligent people who write these articles (to an extent) so surely they could try to see the other side of the issue, but all you'll read in the press is us being lambasted for ruining football.

That was a ramble, but I don't really know what I mean

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Emigre wrote:
Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


Quote:
The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:51 am 
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Bastard wrote:
The Guardian sucks cocks.


Linky plz Basatdr

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Emigre wrote:
Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


Quote:
The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:54 am 
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Micahrichardsatemybaby wrote:
No it's genuinely not. Having Danny Taylor and his sister as Manchester correspondants goes some way to explaining it tbf.

I can't work it out beyond that..? Is everyone so attached to the old heirarchy of football? Do they not want things more interesting? My point of view comes with bias obviously, but what's so wrong with breaking the hegemony? Even if we make it a "big 5", surely that's more interesting and competitive than a top 4?
And the papers cling to us "doing it wrong", as if there was any other way to do it, which smacks of ignorance to me. It's intelligent people who write these articles (to an extent) so surely they could try to see the other side of the issue, but all you'll read in the press is us being lambasted for ruining football.

That was a ramble, but I don't really know what I mean


It's probably soon blown over. Chelsea did get lambasted at first but are now considered part of the establishment. Give it a couple of years...

Oh, and we'll petition Sheik Mansour to buy the Grauniad and sack that rag dick in the meantime.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:57 am 
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Benny wrote:
It's probably soon blown over. Chelsea did get lambasted at first but are now considered part of the establishment. Give it a couple of years...

Oh, and we'll petition Sheik Mansour to buy the Grauniad and sack that rag dick in the meantime.


True, I forget they aren't Old Money sometimes

We'll make that rag the right-winginest, United-slagginist, filth purvayor in the whole world.
Page three you say? Pages three through seventeen!
Upskirt pullout? Why not!
Reader's wives section?
We'll give that a miss actually.

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Emigre wrote:
Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


Quote:
The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:59 am 
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Micahrichardsatemybaby wrote:
True, I forget they aren't Old Money sometimes

We'll make that rag the right-winginest, United-slagginist, filth purvayor in the whole world.
Page three you say? Pages three through seventeen!
Upskirt pullout? Why not!
Reader's wives section?
We'll give that a miss actually.


Editor: D. Studs.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:36 pm 
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'He's going for the money', 'It's a purely money-motivated move.'

These are moans we hear every transfer window as a player leaves one club for another and the fans who used to love him throw a strop, as though the player moving 'purely for the money' is breaking the ranks of the noble unpaid, untainted players who have not been corrupted by filthy lucre. Anyone going to Man City can expect this criticism, just as anyone previously signing for Chelsea moved to the same refrain.

But isn't this just terribly naïve in the 21st century? What do you really expect from these men? By all means criticise them for being rubbish footballers or for not putting effort in, but that's where it ends, surely. Are you really the moral arbiter of their motives and monetary ambitions?

Players are just blokes who play football for money and they owe us little more than that. They're not your mate, your role model, your lover or your financial guru. Stop criticising them for not living up to some ideal you've set for them that they never agreed to conform to in the first place.

Who are we to judge them really? How many 30k-a-week pay rises have you turned down because you felt it was demeaning to your innate company loyalty or as a statement against the futility of materialism? You, with your sneering at 'purely money-motivated' ambitions, are you sure you wouldn't do the same if the same opportunities were available to you?

When your club signed the newly-loathed 'money man' did you think he was coming to you because you're all so bloody wonderful? No, he came for the money. Just because it was your club's money makes no difference. Yes there are other considerations in the mix, but they usually pale next to the money, just as they do in your life.

Players almost never feel the same way about your club as you do. And let's not forget, your loyalty is never tested by a huge pay offer to go and support another club.

Just because you have cheered them on and they have accepted your cheers, don't con yourself into thinking it's anything more than a holiday romance for him. He doesn't love you, the fans, or your club. He really, really doesn't. No matter how much you laud him or talk about him in revered tones. No matter how much you desperately reiterate his or his agent's bland or ambiguous statements to prove he's, in that awful phrase, 'going nowhere'.

That is always one of the saddest aspects of this whole business - the fan who believes what a player says. "He's come out and said he's happy at the club," they will wail..."he loves the fans here" is another popular one.

He likes all of this worship of course, who wouldn't, he may well wallow in it and exploit it for added money and kudos. But football is largely just a job to them. Just like going into work for you is a job. You just do it for the money so why attack them for doing so? How loyal are you to the company you work for? Loyal enough not to change jobs for a substantial pay increase? I wonder? But you're happy to savage others for doing so. Doesn't that just seem wrong to you? And if your boss asked you if you intended to go anywhere else before a new big offer came in, you'd say no, and you'd express loyalty and that would be true at that time. But it all changes when bigger money is available.

Clearly, the amount of financial remuneration for their labours is out of all proportion to their effort. And I'm supportive of anyone who thinks all players should be paid much, much less, but that's not the point here. The fan that attacks a player for a 'money move' seems happy for the player to pick up ludicrous wages at his club, but if he adds a few grand on top of that somewhere else, then that makes it unacceptable. That is just insane and childish.

If you''e on 35k a week and you go somewhere else for 50k does that qualify for criticism? If you're on five thousand and go somewhere for eight is that wrong? What are the rules, who decides, how are these assumptions arrived at? The critics seem to know, but are unable to give us the figures on which they have based their vitriol.

No-one would play for their club for free or even for what we would consider was a tonne of money. Not even the most 'loyal' servants. Not Terry, not Giggs, not Gerrard. If Chelsea, United or Liverpool put all of them on 5k a week at the peak of their career, they'd be gone in heartbeat, 'just for the money'.

Clearly, there are occasions when a player is a badge-kissing hypocrite, but too often, it is the fans that force them into those expressions by the vehemence of their need for love and loyalty.

If the player doesn't declare their undying love for the club then they'll be accused of not caring, of being a mercenary. So they're forced to make some pledge of loyalty that they know is extremely conditional, meaning when they do move they will still be seen as some morally repugnant avaricious monster. This is the curse the reactionary fan and his arrested emotional development casts on players.

God knows we accuse footballers of being childish boy-men, but too many fans mirror this in their own attitudes towards the players. Worst of all are those that treat players as though they're their ex-girlfriends, who have now spurned their affections and now bitch about them as though they never really loved them anyway. That is truly very lame.

What exactly is a player to do to avoid these attacks? Is he supposed to play for the lowest amount of money he can get so as to allay the fiscally-based moral wrath of some fans? Time to wake up, grow up and realise the realities of modern football; it's all about the money.

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Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


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The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:37 pm 
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One of the more curious sights of last season was Arsene Wenger and Sir Alex Ferguson wearing tuxedos, full of bonhomie and talking of mutual 'respect' at an LMA gala dinner. It was read by many as a very clear indication that one of modern football's more entertaining feuds was over - killed by Arsenal's lack of title threat.

Wenger had now joined Kevin Keegan on a pile of the vanquished and Sir Alex's comments last week - "I know that Arsene doesn't have any money" - can be read as further indication that he no longer sees the Gunners as rivals. It could also be read as a patronising pat on the head and is certainly a million miles away from the ill-disguised ill feeling previously directed towards the Frenchman

That ill feeling has undoubtedly been transferred to Rafa Benitez, with Fergie's ridiculous siding with Sam Allardyce over a supposed disrespectful gesture a very clear sign that the Spaniard had him rattled. That he has brought that up again this week is confusing in the extreme - surely he realised that he came out of that manufactured controversy much worse than his adversary? Obviously not.

Ferguson is an intelligent man who picks his fights - Keegan, Wenger, Jose Mourinho and now Benitez appear on his radar because they threaten Manchester United's charge towards trophies. Carlo Ancelotti will soon appear on that list if Ferguson believes that Chelsea's challenge will be greater this season (this time last summer they were rightly dismissed as an ageing side and Phil Scolari was never deemed worthy of a duel).

He is always unerringly respectful towards the likes of David Moyes, Sam Allardyce and Harry Redknapp because they are not seen as a substantial threat. He feels no need to badmouth Tottenham, Everton or Villa because they are not about to gatecrash his lavish party.

So why acknowledge Manchester City? Why call them a 'small club' (quite apart from the hypocrisy) and then treat them as anything but? Ferguson is not a man to start battles with 'small clubs'. This is the man who saves his ammunition for Real Madrid, Liverpool or Chelsea, who does not even waste missiles by firing them in the direction of fourth-placed Arsenal anymore.

City may have missed out on John Terry this week but they have made one move that should warm the cockles of all their fans - onto the radar of a man who doesn't bother picking fights with also-rans. Congratulations City, you have arrived.

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Emigre wrote:
Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


Quote:
The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:45 am 
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Top 4 results

Last season was interesting. In games against each other, the points haul of each of the teams was as follows:

Chelsea 4, United 5, Arsenal 9 and Liverpool 14.

This means that in the games against the other 16 teams, the points distribution was:

Chelsea: 79, United 85, Arsenal 63 and Liverpool 72 (assuming my arithmetic is correct).
So clearly, of those teams, Arsenal were by far the weakest against teams outside the top 4. But United's staggering 85 points out of a maximum possible 96 against those teams mght explain why Baconface is worried. Virtually all of Ronaldo's goals (bar 1) came against those teams so it might be that he is more worried about those potential lost points.

After all, if they were only to get 70 points, for example, then they could potentially be vulnerable to a team crashing the top 4, particularly if Arsenal were to pick up more than 63 points.

Goals from Tevez & Ronaldo were directly responsible for 23 of those points, if my calculation is correct, as those goals made the difference between a draw/loss and the win they got. And that doesn't count Ronaldo's assists (6 officially). He will be keeping his fingers crossed that Rooney, Valencia, Berbatov & Owen can fill the gap. Because if they don't, on those figures, they could be sweating.

In contrast, Adebayor gave Arsenal an extra 6 points last season so they've lost less in theory.

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Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


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The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:03 am 
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How Do You Become Successful Without Money?

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As a proper Man City fan (i.e. I go to games, including every game home and away when we was in Division 2) I can't say I am overjoyed at what is happening to my club. I don't like that everyone now hates us, whereas in the past people had a soft spot for us. - not true, and most "proper" City fans are tired of us being a joke and "little City"

I don't like Adebayor - I watched the Kaiser Chiefs game and he just doesn't 'look' a City man to me. - mong

I don't like Garry Cook - he comes across like a right snake-oil salesman. - he's seemed a whole lot better in the last few months tbf.

And I am not convinced that Mark Hughes will be able to control all the monster egos kicking around the club now - I predict a normal season for us - 10th, if we're lucky. - mong. Utter mong. Surely?

However having said all that, one of the many things that confuses me about football fans is all this talk of 'buying success'. My question is this; what else are you supposed to do? It's not a question of money - managers can complain that we spend over the top for players but really, we're not because it's the value to City - the richest club in the world, meaning there is no benchmark - a player deemed expensive to one club is cheap to City. Is that not supremely obvious? Managers say players are only coming to City for the money - and they're probably right - but if City want to be successful, they need good players. Why are good players going to come to City? They're not as it's a club with no contemporary history to speak of, unlike Manchester United, Liverpool etc, so the only way we can get the players is to entice them with money.

Let's face it, if Adebayor couldv'e gone to United, he probably would have, fair enough - Fergie's a brilliant manager, Man United a fantastic club - so we had to try and make it irresistable to come to us. The only way to do it? With money. This isn't buying success, this is aiming to be successful. They are genuine questions - and one not about money as money is irrelevant to the richest club in the world - how do you get success without buying players? How do you get the best players to come to a club like City? And remember, we have plenty of home-grown players in the side - in fact probably more than most other clubs - so home grown talent isn't a problem. Instead of ranting, please tell me how YOU would become successful, without spending money.


Fucking clueless prick, I would say, but the last couple of paragraphs are right

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Emigre wrote:
Whether he joins or not, we'll be fine this season, and then in the Summer we will build a stunning team, the perfect blend of our youth players, stars and solid signings.


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The world is a beautiful place. You must go into it and love everyone. Try to make everyone happy, and bring peace and contentment everywhere you go. And so I became a waiter ... Well, it's not much of a philosophy I know ... but well ... fuck you! I can live my own life in my own way if I want to! Fuck off!


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:06 am 
"...and away when we was..."

This tells you everything you need to know.


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