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 Post subject: hart or given
PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:12 am 
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Most Premier League sides only have one recognised top class goalkeeper in their ranks. Manchester United have Edwin Van der Sar and Tomas Kuszack, Chelsea have Petr Cech and Henrique Hilario while some Arsenal fans wouldn’t even call Manuel Almunia a goalkeeper! Yet at Eastlands Roberto Mancini has two top rate shot stoppers to call on, Shay Given and Joe Hart.who would be your nuber one , and who do the city fans want to start the season off in goal

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:14 am 
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Hart as he is the future, even though his attitude towards City pisses me off.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:19 am 
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Given for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:39 am 
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given by a mile for me. Hart needs one more year on loan to a midtable team. Good piece done by shaka hislop on espn highlighting the areas hart still needs to improve. No doubt he will be our number 1 in a year or 2

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:38 am 
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Given. He's in his prime, perfect mix of ability and experience. As much as I want Hart to go on and be a legend for us based on his potential, I see no reason to cast aside arguably the premier leagues most consistent keeper of the last 10 years.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:41 am 
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I do not like neither one nor the other, then essentially no difference between the two

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:45 am 
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Joe Hart for me. For reasons detailed in a different thread that i can't be arsed to repeat.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:51 am 
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this thread needs a poll btw.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:27 pm 
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Hart.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Joe Hart shows Fabio Capello he is ready to be England's No1Only injury or extreme selectorial eccentricity can stop the keeper taking up a permanent role for England
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Joe Hart played with the sort of unfussy confidence against Hungary that can spread through an entire defence. Photograph: Carl Recine/Action Images
Joe Hart played all 92 minutes of the match against Hungary at Wembley, and nothing in his display suggested that Fabio Capello need concern himself about looking any further for a No1 keeper. Only injury or an outbreak of extreme selectorial eccentricity can now stand between the 23-year-old and a permanent role in England's qualifying campaign for Euro 2012.

In his first starting appearance for the team, Hart played with the sort of unfussy confidence that can spread through an entire defence. He did the simple things well, preserved the victory with one notable save near the end, and generally allowed the proactive nature that has shaped his career to shine throughout a difficult evening on which the members of England's Under-17 squad, recent winners of the European Championship, were introduced to the crowd with the sound of the half-time jeers for their seniors still ringing around the stadium.

With his 21 caps at Under-21 level, Hart offers proof that real talent can still make the transition to the senior ranks seem straightforward. That should come as a particular relief to Capello, given the uncertainty over the goalkeeping position since the retirement of David Seaman in 2002. After 75 caps, even the Arsenal stalwart ended up a casualty of a position that has since claimed the reputations of Paul Robinson, Scott Carson and Robert Green. Ronaldinho's free-kick in Shizuoka and Artim Sakiri's corner at St Mary's provoked the unhappy finish to Seaman's tenure, while his notional successor, David James, never quite managed to establish himself as the undisputed first choice.

Given the inferior quality of last night's opposition, Hart's fourth senior appearance hardly presented the most substantial test of his credentials. With five minutes gone he gathered Akos Elek's glancing header from a free-kick, after 17 minutes he came out to punch away Balazs Dzsudzsak's corner, and on the half-hour he gathered Zoltan Gera's harmless 20-yard shot. In the second half he was virtually unemployed until Hungary were awarded a goal which, since the ball did not fully cross the line, should not have been given, and for which the goalkeeper carried no blame.

There was, however, a moment that he will remember with pride, and it came with only a minute and a half of normal time remaining. So little occupied during the second half that he might almost have been forgiven for allowing his attention to wander, he reacted brilliantly when Gera made ground in the inside-right channel and left Phil Jagielka and Kieran Gibbs floundering before unleashing a fierce drive. Anticipating the danger, Hart had come out and narrowed the angle in time to parry the Hungary captain's effort. An equaliser at that moment would have doused spirits revived by Steven Gerrard's goals and done considerable harm to Capello's attempt to revive his credibility in time for the European qualifying campaign.

Goodness knows why it has taken Capello so long to identify Hart as his No1. He and his cabal of assistants – Franco Baldini and his two goalkeeping coaches, Franco Tancredi and Ray Clemence – have long expressed their admiration of an impressive young man who communicates well not only with his defenders but also with the outside world, reminding us that he left his science college in Shrewsbury, his birthplace, as head boy.

Hart's courageous decision to take his destiny into his own hands by going on a season-long loan from Manchester City to Birmingham City last season, in response to the arrival of Shay Given at Eastlands, suggests that it must have been especially painful for him to stand silently in the shadows while first Green and then James were given preference in South Africa.

Having been named as Manchester City's No1 keeper by Sven-Goran Eriksson at the start of the 2008-09 season, a year later he reacted to Mark Hughes's decision to pay Newcastle United £6m for Given, the experienced Republic of Ireland international, by taking a bold step that has certainly paid off in terms of his own career. A season with Birmingham led to a nomination for the PFA's Young Player of the Year award and an appearance in the same body's Premier League team of the year, ahead of such superstars as Petr Cech, Edwin van der Sar and Pepe Reina.

Now he has swapped dark blue for the paler shade again, and it will be a severe indictment of Roberto Mancini's stewardship if the Italian decides that Hart is not a big enough name to fit into his all-star team sheet. Mancini might care to note that a statistical comparison between Given's performances with Manchester City and Hart's with Birmingham City last season, given particular relevance by the fact that their workloads were almost identical (36 matches, 3,240 minutes and 42 goals conceded for Hart versus 35, 3,136 and 42 for Given), shows that the younger man made more saves (124 to 95), more punches (34 to 19) and more catches (69 to 33). He also dropped the ball only twice, to Given's five fumbles.

But statistics can only take you so far. What Hart has to recommend him above his rivals is a presence on the field, that indefinable quality which ought to be a prerequisite for an international player. He has had to wait a little longer than Iker Casillas, Spain's first choice at 21, or Gianluigi Buffon, who took over for Italy at 22, but better late than never.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:48 pm 
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Don't like swapping keepers round from game to game but would Joe be happy with all the cup games (including the UEFA) and Shay with all the prem games (with an eye on swapping roles next season if form dictates).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:51 pm 
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if it came down to which one do we keep (happy or at all) i'd have to go with hart. he could be our casillas.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:58 pm 
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gibbonicus_andronicus wrote:
if it came down to which one do we keep (happy or at all) i'd have to go with hart. he could be our casillas.


exactly my thought and that's why i'd prefer hart any time

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Markered Man wrote:
Don't like swapping keepers round from game to game but would Joe be happy with all the cup games (including the UEFA) and Shay with all the prem games (with an eye on swapping roles next season if form dictates).


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:29 pm 
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My heart says Given, but I think it's a given that it'll be Hart.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:48 pm 
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I watched Given last night against Argentina and he looked class as usual.

We are very lucky to have two good 'keepers and we must hold onto both. When Hart was on loan last year and we had to rely on our third choice we could have ended up in serious trouble.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:00 pm 
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I feel that Given was affected considerably by the French handball incident, and never really recovered his form for the remainder of the season.
That said , I would not like to have Mancini's problem. It is his choice but if he lets either out on loan, there must be a recall clause in the contract. We must not have a repeat of last season's problems.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Bert Trautmanns neck brace wrote:
I feel that Given was affected considerably by the French handball incident, and never really recovered his form for the remainder of the season.
That said , I would not like to have Mancini's problem. It is his choice but if he lets either out on loan, there must be a recall clause in the contract. We must not have a repeat of last season's problems.


This is an absolute must. I can't believe Given is threatning to go if he aint our number 1, i can understand a little more with Hart because he wants to cement the number 1 jersey with England. Given doesnt have this problem and is already established as the ROI number 1. I can't think of another ROI keeper anywhere near Given's quality. I wish they would both just fuckin get on with it :(


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:34 pm 
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Scotty wrote:
This is an absolute must. I can't believe Given is threatning to go if he aint our number 1, i can understand a little more with Hart because he wants to cement the number 1 jersey with England. Given doesnt have this problem and is already established as the ROI number 1. I can't think of another ROI keeper anywhere near Given's quality. I wish they would both just fuckin get on with it :(


To be fair to him he's far too old to be someones number 2. He knows he wont physically be able to perform at the top level for that much longer and want's to still play at a world class level while he still can.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:37 am 
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Heart says Hart but Given's a given.


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