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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:24 pm 
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i've said it before, i'll say it again - Paul Wilson is a massive cunt.

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What if Jack Wilshere had broken a leg? Would City have appealed then?Can anyone possibly say that – considering the rule book – Mike Dean made 'an obvious error' in sending off Vincent Kompany for the tackle on Jack Wilshere?
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Paul Wilson guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 16 January 2013 14.07 GMT Jump to comments (102)
Mike Dean lays down the law to Arsenal's Thomas Vermaelen in the defeat by Manchester City as Abou Diaby looks on. Photograph: Tom Jenkins for the Guardian
Everyone likes to see a referee in the wrong, especially one who wears boots with lime green soles and pops his eyes like Jasper Carrott as he theatrically waves his red card and gestures towards the tunnel, but you can't help feeling Mike Dean deserved a little more support from his employers over his interpretation of Vincent Kompany's tackle on Jack Wilshere and that a can of worms has been opened by the overturning of the dismissal by an independent FA commission.

Fair enough. Kompany did seem harshly treated at the time and it is probably true to say that had Dean overlooked the incident and allowed play to continue there would have been no howls of protest. The ball was won, after all, the Arsenal player was not injured, so maybe in one sense an injustice has been corrected. If the referee overreacted, he has now been brought back into line.

But did Dean overreact? More to the point, did he make "an obvious error", which is considered the only grounds on which the commission could overturn his decision? If so, what was this obvious error?

The groundswell of opinion is that Dean thought Kompany guilty of a two-footed lunge, and punished him accordingly, whereas replays were able to prove that the Manchester City captain had lunged with only one foot and was therefore on solid ground.

That suggests the law says one foot good, two feet bad, when it says no such thing. The law actually says that lunges are the problem, not the number of feet in the air, and suggests that players who leave the ground are taking a risk. So you can see Dean's dilemma.

Despite the chorus of defenders bemoaning the fact that the art of tackling is dead and ball winning is being legislated out of the game, Kompany's was not the sort of tackle to be held up to youngsters as an example of how to challenge for the ball. He failed to stay on his feet, for a start, he definitely lunged, and although on this occasion he won the ball cleanly, a defender of that size flying through the air with studs raised is bound to make the referee wonder whether he is fully in control or guilty of using excessive force. All it would take is for Kompany to mistime that tackle by a few inches, or Wilshere to shift his standing foot at the last moment, and you are looking at a potential leg-breaker.

Here is what the rule book actually says, the guideline referees must try and remember in the heat of the moment: "Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind, using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play."

Here is the real conundrum. No one actually thinks Kompany was guilty of serious foul play. There was no intention to injure an opponent, every care was taken to play the ball and not the man, and practically everyone in the world agrees it would have been a travesty had he been forced to miss three matches for a challenge that was basically hard but fair. Yet reading the law as set out above, can it really be said that Dean got it completely wrong? Did he make an obvious error? At least you can see where the referee was coming from, and though Kompany's case was strengthened by the fact that he caused no injury, burly defenders leaving the ground with their full weight behind their raised studs have snapped ankles and led to overheated debates on the safety of the game in the past.

Here's another question. Supposing Kompany had made the same tackle and caught Wilshere on the ankle, perhaps due to the latter moving the ball or his foot at the last second, as sometimes happens. Wilshere is only just back from injury, and if he had departed on a stretcher with the prospect of being out for another few months, with Arsène Wenger muttering in the background about dangerous play and not getting enough protection from referees, would City have bothered to appeal the official's decision to send him off? Of course they wouldn't.

They would have held up their hands and said sorry. But if referees are going to give players protection from flying studs and dangerously overcommitted challenges, they have to assess the tackle itself, not wait and check on the outcome. Certain types of tackle are potentially dangerous, and they don't all look like the classic, two-footed, long-jump-landing lunge of beloved memory. There are all sorts of shades in between, and referees are supposed to take into account the amount of force used, which often comes down to the size and weight of the player, and the amount of control exerted.

If Dean was in the wrong, so was Kompany, who has picked up a few cautions in this manner and probably needs to stay on his feet for longer. It may be regrettable that full-blooded commitment as well as contact is being forced out of the game, but there was no real need for Kompany to dive in as he did, and you don't see Barcelona defenders doing it. The game moves on, refereeing interpretations change, and clever defenders adapt.

This observer thought a yellow card and a warning would have covered the situation adequately, but this observer happened to think the same thing about the Laurent Koscielny incident earlier in the same match. This observer is not a referee. If he were, he would have deemed a penalty and a booking sufficient punishment for that amount of stupidity.

The letter of the law might have deemed it a clear goalscoring opportunity, though as Edin Dzeko went on to miss that other clear goalscoring opportunity – the penalty – it seems a moot point, to say the least.

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Top bloke that Paul Wilson.


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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:35 pm 
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He is funny that Paul bloke. It was a slide tackle, he won the ball with one foot, the error was Dean got it wrong.

For me two footed tackles are unnecessary, like the one Johnson did on Zabs in the cup last year or year before. The law needs revisiting for me.

I remember playing a game in my youth and went for a similar 50-50 as the Vinny one, Myself and the other player stayed on our feet, but we went and kicked the ball in a "firm" challenge at the same time. His studs caught in the grass, and I broke his ankle as a result. It wasnt malicious, just one of those things.

I played for 18 years and never had a booking either. Id use a lot of slide tackles too, but normally whilst along side a player, not normally facing the player. i think if they gave clear guidelines on what is acceptable and what isnt, tackling would still stay in the game, providing the laws are not ultra strict.


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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:38 pm 
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gibbonicus_andronicus wrote:
i've said it before, i'll say it again - Paul Wilson is a massive cunt.

Quote:
What if Jack Wilshere had broken a leg? Would City have appealed then?Can anyone possibly say that – considering the rule book – Mike Dean made 'an obvious error' in sending off Vincent Kompany for the tackle on Jack Wilshere?
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Paul Wilson guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 16 January 2013 14.07 GMT Jump to comments (102)
Mike Dean lays down the law to Arsenal's Thomas Vermaelen in the defeat by Manchester City as Abou Diaby looks on. Photograph: Tom Jenkins for the Guardian
Everyone likes to see a referee in the wrong, especially one who wears boots with lime green soles and pops his eyes like Jasper Carrott as he theatrically waves his red card and gestures towards the tunnel, but you can't help feeling Mike Dean deserved a little more support from his employers over his interpretation of Vincent Kompany's tackle on Jack Wilshere and that a can of worms has been opened by the overturning of the dismissal by an independent FA commission.

Fair enough. Kompany did seem harshly treated at the time and it is probably true to say that had Dean overlooked the incident and allowed play to continue there would have been no howls of protest. The ball was won, after all, the Arsenal player was not injured, so maybe in one sense an injustice has been corrected. If the referee overreacted, he has now been brought back into line.

But did Dean overreact? More to the point, did he make "an obvious error", which is considered the only grounds on which the commission could overturn his decision? If so, what was this obvious error?

The groundswell of opinion is that Dean thought Kompany guilty of a two-footed lunge, and punished him accordingly, whereas replays were able to prove that the Manchester City captain had lunged with only one foot and was therefore on solid ground.

That suggests the law says one foot good, two feet bad, when it says no such thing. The law actually says that lunges are the problem, not the number of feet in the air, and suggests that players who leave the ground are taking a risk. So you can see Dean's dilemma.

Despite the chorus of defenders bemoaning the fact that the art of tackling is dead and ball winning is being legislated out of the game, Kompany's was not the sort of tackle to be held up to youngsters as an example of how to challenge for the ball. He failed to stay on his feet, for a start, he definitely lunged, and although on this occasion he won the ball cleanly, a defender of that size flying through the air with studs raised is bound to make the referee wonder whether he is fully in control or guilty of using excessive force. All it would take is for Kompany to mistime that tackle by a few inches, or Wilshere to shift his standing foot at the last moment, and you are looking at a potential leg-breaker.

Here is what the rule book actually says, the guideline referees must try and remember in the heat of the moment: "Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind, using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play."

Here is the real conundrum. No one actually thinks Kompany was guilty of serious foul play. There was no intention to injure an opponent, every care was taken to play the ball and not the man, and practically everyone in the world agrees it would have been a travesty had he been forced to miss three matches for a challenge that was basically hard but fair. Yet reading the law as set out above, can it really be said that Dean got it completely wrong? Did he make an obvious error? At least you can see where the referee was coming from, and though Kompany's case was strengthened by the fact that he caused no injury, burly defenders leaving the ground with their full weight behind their raised studs have snapped ankles and led to overheated debates on the safety of the game in the past.

Here's another question. Supposing Kompany had made the same tackle and caught Wilshere on the ankle, perhaps due to the latter moving the ball or his foot at the last second, as sometimes happens. Wilshere is only just back from injury, and if he had departed on a stretcher with the prospect of being out for another few months, with Arsène Wenger muttering in the background about dangerous play and not getting enough protection from referees, would City have bothered to appeal the official's decision to send him off? Of course they wouldn't.

They would have held up their hands and said sorry. But if referees are going to give players protection from flying studs and dangerously overcommitted challenges, they have to assess the tackle itself, not wait and check on the outcome. Certain types of tackle are potentially dangerous, and they don't all look like the classic, two-footed, long-jump-landing lunge of beloved memory. There are all sorts of shades in between, and referees are supposed to take into account the amount of force used, which often comes down to the size and weight of the player, and the amount of control exerted.

If Dean was in the wrong, so was Kompany, who has picked up a few cautions in this manner and probably needs to stay on his feet for longer. It may be regrettable that full-blooded commitment as well as contact is being forced out of the game, but there was no real need for Kompany to dive in as he did, and you don't see Barcelona defenders doing it. The game moves on, refereeing interpretations change, and clever defenders adapt.

This observer thought a yellow card and a warning would have covered the situation adequately, but this observer happened to think the same thing about the Laurent Koscielny incident earlier in the same match. This observer is not a referee. If he were, he would have deemed a penalty and a booking sufficient punishment for that amount of stupidity.
The letter of the law might have deemed it a clear goalscoring opportunity, though as Edin Dzeko went on to miss that other clear goalscoring opportunity – the penalty – it seems a moot point, to say the least.



So an out and out Rugby tackle is only a yellow card?

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:47 pm 
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rom Rob McNichol - Ask the Ref on F365:

In the second half came another red card, this time for City, and for their captain Vincent Kompany. Instinctively I felt it was very harsh. On review I still think he was extremely hard done by (although the FA have since overruled Mike Dean's decision). That all said, I have some sympathy with the referee who is in a bit of a predicament.

The law is most contradictory with tackles like this. Firstly, the law says that you judge a red card based on whether a challenge is made with 'excessive force or brutality'. It then mentions endangering the safety of an opponent. The next paragraph, though, is key. It reads:

'Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.'

The addition of the clause 'one or both legs' covers basically every tackle, therefore indicating that the important aspect is how serious the tackle is, not how many legs you go in with. However, professional referees are instructed that if a player makes a tackle with both feet off the ground that they are out of control, and therefore endangering the safety of their opponent. Ergo, they must be sent off.

I believe, personally, that there is a huge difference between a tackle in which you lead with both feet, studs up and going in with excessive force, than one where one leg leads and the other, admittedly off the ground, follows through. I felt that in isolation Kompany's was a good tackle, made with the player's eye on the ball and made within the spirit of the game, without intention to hurt the opponent. I think referees ought to be allowed to look at a tackle on its own merits and not simply follow black and white guidelines.

It is, though, interesting to note that Abdoulaye Faye of Hull City was not punished for a tackle in which he leapt in with two feet, at home to Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday, taking the ball. I thought his tackle was far more dangerous and likely to hurt an opponent than Kompany's.

I do think there was a touch of Mr Dean thinking about his earlier dismissal, perhaps in the back of his mind. I don't think he is the kind of official to deliberately 'even things up', but I defy anyone to subconsciously have it in your mind when assessing a follow-up.


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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:49 pm 
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gibbonicus_andronicus wrote:

If Dean was in the wrong, so was Kompany, who has picked up a few cautions in this manner and probably needs to stay on his feet for longer. It may be regrettable that full-blooded commitment as well as contact is being forced out of the game, but there was no real need for Kompany to dive in as he did, and you don't see Barcelona defenders doing it. The game moves on, refereeing interpretations change, and clever defenders adapt.


Id missed this bit, clearly doesnt watch much La Liga. Its a technical league, but its also one for nasty tackles and cheating too, its just the refs are utter crap.


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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:56 am 
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Anyone know what was said?

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Greater Manchester police are studying TV footage of a post-match interview after Monday's Manchester derby following claims that the Manchester City captain, Vincent Kompany, was racially abused.

The comments under investigation could be heard while Kompany and his team-mate James Milner were being interviewed on Sky Sports following their 2-1 victory at Old Trafford.

"Greater Manchester police have not received a complaint about racist abuse directed towards any players following last night's fixture, however we have now been made aware of this footage by the Manchester Evening News," a police statement said. "The force will work with both clubs and review any footage to investigate the incident."

Neither City nor Kompany have made a complaint over the obscenity, which it is believed came from outside the tunnel area. The area was sealed off from public view by large metal gates, though it is not uncommon for supporters to yell abuse as they make their way past that part of the stadium, before barriers are erected to allow supporters to wait for players to emerge and for players' cars to be brought for them to leave.


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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:56 am 
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The TV fellow ,Neville's mate, apologised immediately after the interview for any bad language heard. I did not hear anything myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:12 am 
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NoddytheAdlingtonBlue wrote:
Anyone know what was said?

Quote:

Greater Manchester police are studying TV footage of a post-match interview after Monday's Manchester derby following claims that the Manchester City captain, Vincent Kompany, was racially abused.

The comments under investigation could be heard while Kompany and his team-mate James Milner were being interviewed on Sky Sports following their 2-1 victory at Old Trafford.

"Greater Manchester police have not received a complaint about racist abuse directed towards any players following last night's fixture, however we have now been made aware of this footage by the Manchester Evening News," a police statement said. "The force will work with both clubs and review any footage to investigate the incident."

Neither City nor Kompany have made a complaint over the obscenity, which it is believed came from outside the tunnel area. The area was sealed off from public view by large metal gates, though it is not uncommon for supporters to yell abuse as they make their way past that part of the stadium, before barriers are erected to allow supporters to wait for players to emerge and for players' cars to be brought for them to leave.


It is a bit difficult to tell, there is a crucial word that is a bit unclear. The comment is - we still won the league you XXXX cnut. Initially it sounds like XXXX is black but it could also be daft. It is in the interview area which I don't imagine is accessible to many, certainly not fans, so could get messy depending on whether it was black or daft.

Edit - reading the article properly it could have been fans.

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:17 pm 
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Seems to have broken his nose playing for Belgium. Should add a bit of rugedness to his handsomeness


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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:23 pm 
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NoddytheAdlingtonBlue wrote:
Seems to have broken his nose playing for Belgium. Should add a bit of rugedness to his handsomeness

bastards..how bleeding dare they.. :mad:

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:51 am 
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NoddytheAdlingtonBlue wrote:
Seems to have broken his nose playing for Belgium. Should add a bit of rugedness to his handsomeness

and fractured an eye socket and was concussed and played on.

wimp

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:52 am 
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NoddytheAdlingtonBlue wrote:
Seems to have broken his nose playing for Belgium. Should add a bit of rugedness to his handsomeness

and fractured an eye socket and was concussed and played on.

wimp

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:52 am 
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Bert Trautmanns neck brace wrote:
NoddytheAdlingtonBlue wrote:
Seems to have broken his nose playing for Belgium. Should add a bit of rugedness to his handsomeness

and fractured an eye socket and was concussed and played on.

wimp

Must be planning a career in rugby league or aussie rules


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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:21 am 
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I don't even...

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:52 am 
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Gobby wrote:
I don't even...

Image



Vincent Kompany.

A Giant amongst Men.

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:39 am 
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Manchester City's Vincent Kompany hopeful of making quick recovery• Kompany injured during City's 4-0 defeat of Newcastle
• City's captain tweets that he will be fit again 'in no time'
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theguardian.com, Tuesday 20 August 2013 10.19 BST
Vincent Kompany of Manchester City feels the pain from his injury during the match against Newcastle United. Photograph: Rex/BPI
Manchester City's captain Vincent Kompany is hopeful of making a quick recovery after being forced out of his side's season-opening match.

The defender suffered what appeared to be a groin injury during City's 4-0 Premier League defeat of Newcastle at the Etihad Stadium and left the field after 71 minutes.

It was the only sour note in what was an otherwise excellent first match under new manager Manuel Pellegrini.

But Kompany, 27, tweeted: "Team was great. I felt great. Injury is a blow after all the hard work. I'll be back to that level in no time. Thanks for all the support!."

City are currently light on central defenders with Matija Nastasic also out with an ankle problem, although Pellegrini did suggest the Serbian would be back in full training this week. With Micah Richards also missing the first game, midfielder Javi Garcia came on to play alongside Joleon Lescott in a makeshift back line for the closing minutes.

City's only other centre-back option is Dedryck Boyata, who lacked opportunities under former manager Roberto Mancini and spent time on loan at Bolton and FC Twente.

City have been linked with other defenders, including Real Madrid's Pepe, but Pellegrini has given no firm indication that he intends to move back into the transfer market.

Kompany's presence is vital to the City team and a two-month absence with a calf injury in the second half of last season proved costly in the title race.

City will now await the results of a scan on the Belgium skipper. Pellegrini said: "We will see what happened with the injury. The doctor will say how days or weeks he will be injured.

"I can't tell you exactly now what happened with him but I think it is a serious injury - maybe for one or two weeks." City travel to Cardiff next weekend and then host Hull before the September international break.

Kompany's fellow defender Pablo Zabaleta said: "It is hard for the team to lose the captain. He is one of the most important players for the team but sometimes it happens in football.

"Obviously after the pre-season people are a little bit tired. I wish him a speedy recovery and hopefully he can come back as soon as possible."

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:43 am 
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gibbonicus_andronicus wrote:
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"Obviously after the pre-season people are a little bit tired.

That's what you want to hear after the first game of the season!


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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:47 am 
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yeah, i thought that...

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 Post subject: Re: Kompany
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:39 pm 
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Out for 3 weeks, fuckin fuck it.

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