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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:38 am 
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Joe Hart admits he is affected by criticism from Roberto Mancini
• Manchester City goalkeeper says season has been tough
• 'Sometimes you take knocks, but you've got to be strong'
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Jamie Jackson
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 20 March 2013 23.00 GMT

Manchester City's Joe Hart believes this season has been challenging for him. Photograph: Carl Recine/Action Images
Joe Hart has given another indication of the uneasy relationship between Roberto Mancini and the Manchester City players by admitting his manager's criticism makes him feel Mancini does not believe he is "up to it" on occasions.

At differing times during a fraught season in which City's Champions League challenge and title defence have faltered, Mancini has made negative comments about his goalkeeper's performances, as he has about other City players. "You have got to be able to move on," Hart said. "Everyone is going to have their opinion, you have to take it as best you can, for what you are trying to achieve and move on from there. He is free to do his press conferences as he feels and if he feels you are not up to it ..."

When City lost to Real Madrid in a Champions League group game last September having conceded two late goals, Hart stated the team "threw it away". Mancini's response was sharp: "Joe Hart should stay in goal and make saves. If anyone should criticise the team it should be me, not Joe Hart. I am the judge, not Joe Hart."

Another Hart error came when he was beaten at the near post by Adam Johnson as City lost 1-0 at Sunderland on Boxing Day. After City's 3-1 defeat at Southampton in February, when Hart was at fault for the second goal, Mancini said: "It's not strange because he did two or three mistakes this year and this is not good for us. Joe is a good keeper but a goalkeeper can't do a mistake like this." Later that month, Mancini told the Guardian: "If Joe continues to make mistakes, he goes on the bench."

When it was put to Hart that Sir Alex Ferguson never publicly criticises his players, he said: "All managers have their different way of doing things."

Mancini has not reserved his criticism only for Hart. In the same interview, Mancini said of Samir Nasri: "A player of this quality could be one of the best players in Europe. But it's not happening." After Ajax beat City in the Champions League and Micah Richards dismissed the system of three centre-backs Mancini switched to during the 3-1 defeat, the manager said of him: "If you are a top player it is not important what system you use."

In a season during which City finished bottom of their Champions League group and are now 15 points behind Manchester United in the Premier League, Mancini has made other questionable decisions. He demoted Joleon Lescott to fourth-choice central defender despite him being a regular in last year's FA Cup and title-winning sides, and continually dropped then reinstated the forwards Edin Dzeko and Carlos Tevez.

Hart does admit it has been a challenging season for him. "I've enjoyed it. It's been tough, things haven't always gone my way. I'm enjoying the fight and getting back in there," he said. "Sometimes you take knocks, that's football, you take opinions, but you've got to be strong. I'm my strongest critic but I would never bury myself."

A view has formed that Hart requires competition of a quality higher than his current deputy at City, Costel Pantilimon. Ahead of the World Cup qualifiers with San Marino and Montenegro, Hart has been joined by Ben Foster in the England squad, after he was persuaded from international retirement by Roy Hodgson, his former club manager.

Yet Hart deny he needs pushing. "I don't need reinvigorating. I train hard, I work hard, I want to play well, I try and play well no matter who is doing what. I'm sure that's the way Ben thinks and all top players think."

Regarding City appearing to all but have lost the championship to United, Hart said: "I'd love to know [why]. We have done well. But we have been up against a killing machine that have kept turning out results no matter."

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:15 pm 
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My auto happy birthday email from city had a cheesy message from hart I wonder what other people get on their birthday


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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Many congratulations to Joe on picking up the Golden glove for the 3rd season in a row.


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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:31 am 
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Joe Joe Joe Joe

What do we do with him???

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:52 am 
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Okay, he's in a rut of bad forme. He will get passed this and become a better goalkeep but perhaps a spell trying to earn his place as no.1 can do no harm. Pantilmon doesn't fill me with enormous confidence but I think he deserves a shot...unless Sody Pop has seen something at training indicating Panti shouldn't get in before Joe.

He'll come reet, time is all.

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:25 am 
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Convinced he should be taken out of the limelight now.

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:30 am 
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Character building. He's won us enough points in the past, we should stick by him through this difficult spell. It would be different if we had someone like Courtois waiting in the wings, but I don't think Pants will be any better over the course of a season.


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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:34 am 
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I think there are 3 main problems.

Hart never seems to be rested. he plays virtually every match and when he isn't playing for City he is playing for England.

He has lost his goalkeeping coach when Mancini's team left


Does pantilimon inspire you with confidence?

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:44 am 
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Further, Joe has been preferred choice since age 19 at Shrews and City. He's done an outstanding job but give him a rest for a bit. character building etc whatever you wish to call it.

And no Panto does not.

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:52 am 
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If we were in the market for another top quality keeper... Casillas still can't get back in the Real team, not for league matches anyway. The president hates his guts. At 32 he's in his prime for a keeper. Wouldn't cost the earth I wouldn't have thought, although his wages would be pretty astronomical. Still, you'd have a world class keeper for a good few years while Joe gets his shit together. Bet he'd be well up for getting out of Madrid (like Ozil), and I'm sure Manny, Soriano and Txixi have got the contacts in Spain to get the deal done.


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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Have i missed something with pants??

I thought he was quite an excellent keeper when i've seen him and a decent bloody back up to Joe.

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:58 am 
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If Hart's errors and Forster's saves don't tell the whole story, what does?Judging a keeper by clean sheets or mistakes is incomplete, so how can we better analyse their performances?
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Sean Ingle
The Guardian, Sunday 6 October 2013 23.39 BST Jump to comments (113)
Illustration: David Humphries
Two scenes, one sweeping narrative. At the Etihad, an English goalkeeper flaps and flounders against Bayern Munich before driving his face into the turf in apparent wish-fulfilment - "maybe if I press down hard enough the ground really will swallow me up?" - while at Celtic Park another conducts a one-man rebellion against the reality of Barcelona's fantasy.

It made for an obvious yet compelling comparison: Joe Hart v Fraser Forster, the incumbent against the coming man. It also showed that one of the game's mustiest aphorisms, that you're only as good as your last match, still holds true with keepers: each mistake magnified on Sky Sports News, the footballing equivalent of the Hubble telescope, on the hour every hour. Similarly one unfathomable save – David de Gea against Chelsea last year comes to mind – can flip-flop perceptions.

So how can we better evaluate a keeper's performance? Relying on those old perennials, clean sheets and goals conceded, hardly tells the whole story. In 2012-13, for instance, Hart had 18 clean sheets in the Premier League, four clear of any other keeper, and Manchester City conceded the fewest goals, yet his level was widely considered to have slipped.

The CEO of 21st club, Blake Wooster, who works with a number of teams, admits that performance data for keepers is still "a little shallow". But things are improving. Companies such as Opta now collate saves from inside and outside the box, monitor the number of big chances – usually one-on-ones – a keeper stops, and also the number of mistakes leading to goals and shots.

We know, for instance, that while Hart's save percentage from shots inside the penalty area has remained broadly constant since 2009-10 (around 64-67%), he has been letting in a higher percentage from outside the box in the past two seasons. Of course shot-based statistics lack context – where exactly on the pitch were they taken? What was the quality? What about the defenders' positions? – but even so, all keepers believe they should stop an attempt from distance, whether it is struck by Johnny Metgod or Johnny Rotten.

Bloomberg's Sport has also used another Opta metric – keepers' mistakes – across the major European leagues since 2009-10. On this measure, Hart performs moderately well. He has made 15 mistakes leading to a goal or shot during this period – the same as Petr Cech and better than Victor Valdés (16), Manuel Neuer and Iker Casillas (17), but behind Hugo Lloris and Gianluigi Buffon (nine) – and makes a mistake leading to a shot or goal every 1,026 minutes, again better than average.

There is a caveat. As Bloomberg's Jimmy Coverdale points out, since the start of last season only two keepers have made more errors in the league leading to goals than Hart's six – Toulouse's Ali Ahamada (8) and Kossi Agassa (7) of Reims.

Hart also ranks reasonably well on another Opta metric – big chances saved (a metric Opta agree is a little subjective). Last season his figure of 24% (nine saves out of 37) was nothing extraordinary but still better than the likes of Buffon (16%) and Casillas (19%), although behind De Gea, who saved 11 of out 25 big chances for a 44% conversion rate, one of the highest in Europe.

Unfortunately because the SPL is not considered a major league, no such detailed data exists for Forster.

Of course the stats do not tell you everything. Lloris, for instance, is an excellent sweeper-keeper and anticipates play particularly well. That is hard to show in the data. Clubs will use many in-house reaction time tests – speed, agility and quickness – to better analyse a keeper's performance too.

Another issue, as Wooster points out, is that we do not typically use stats to analyse keepers as an attacking force. It would not be hard to do: football is a game of transitions between attack and defence, so how quickly a goalkeeper, having made a safe catch, takes to distribute a throw could be worth exploring. As Wooster says: "Keepers should be considered as the first line of attack rather than just the last line of defence."

Meanwhile Wooster tells an anecdote about working with Aston Villa while at Prozone in the early 2000s to show how far the use of data has come. Back then a player's distance stats were – wrongly – considered a key metric and Villa's manager, John Gregory, used Prozone to show David Ginola wasn't running enough.

What made Ginola's predicament worse was that David James started jogging across his own box whenever the ball was in the opposition half – leading Gregory to fume at the Frenchman, "For God's sake, you're covering less distance than our keeper!"

In the past few years, however, similar data has shown keepers that the best way to save long-range shots is to remain closer to their line than the six-yard box – a reversal of previous practice – because having more time to react matters more than closing down the angle. "Tim Howard, for one, is a very successful shot stopper because he sat deep on his line," Wooster says of the Everton goalkeeper. Given we are still in an embryonic age of goalkeeper data, more revelations – and detailed explanations – are likely still to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Don't worry Joe, you could be this fella......


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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:36 am 
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Sounds like Joe won't be Englands number one for much longer.

Talking about this guy Fraser Forster coming in and if he does well who knows, only take a few fuck ups till we then find another poor bastard.

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:01 pm 
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After last night's display should Joe be reinstated for the spurs game at weekend. Didi Hamaan was on Sky saying he could not be because pantyman has done nothing wrong which is true enough.
Joe's mix up with Smalling last night was not a mistake. it was an astute tactical decision because he did not want the useless object anywhere near the ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Being told to find a new club.

I am not happy about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:34 pm 
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Gallagheresque wrote:
Being told to find a new club.

I am not happy about this.

Peps ruthless.......he and us just have to deal with it..
Seems harsh. Englands number 1. Aint good enough..

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:08 am 
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Never liked his demeanor - he seems like a typical chav to me.

Glad to see the back of him to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:51 am 
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So Caballero hangs around and we get in a 33 year old as our first choice.


:think:

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 Post subject: Re: Hart
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:22 am 
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I am thinking that Joe could do worse than go on loan to Sunderland.
There would have to be conditions of course. Anytime recall so that we don't get put in the position we were in a few years ago when he was loaned to Birmingham, and not being able to play against us.
It is pointless him sitting on the bench once every three weeks. If he goes to Sunderland he will clearly play every week and get plenty of action, more probably than he would get at City even if he was in the team every game. It would not harm his England chances and Big Sam would be happy as well.

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